�TOWN OF
PLANNING BOARD
DRAFT MINUTES
June 20, 2018
Chairman
Ian Murray called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
Planning Clerk Linda McCabe called the roll: Chairman
Ian Murray � present, Laurie
Griffen � present, Patrick Hanehan � present, Robert
McConnell � present, Joseph
Lewandowski � absent, Brandon Myers � present,
George Olsen - present,
Alternate Christopher Koval - present.
Due to the absence of Joseph Lewandowski, Alternate
Member Christopher Koval was elevated to full voting status.
Also attending: Zoning
Officer Gil Albert, Karen Kolanowski, Frank Owens, Mary Maranville, Elizabeth
Snyder, Garry Robinson, Steve and Louise Winney, Stephanie Ferradino, Alicia
and Louis Farone, Bill Peck, Terri Korb, Dan Spillane and Claudia Braymer. �(Sign-in sheet is on file in the Clerk's
office)
Approved
Sketch Plan Conference for Minor
Subdivision
Cheryl Norris
#18-06����������������������������������� Owner:� Helen Wells-Hoffman
1019 Rt. 4 S.�������������������������������������������������������������� �� 1017 Rt. 4 S
Schuylerville, NY
12871������������������������������������������ �� Schuylerville, NY 12871
S/B/L 170.-1-45
Rural
Location:� 1017 Rt. 4S
Applicant seeks to subdivide a 2 acre lot with existing home from the 35.12+/- acre parcel with an existing home.� There will be no changes to the property aside from the boundary lines as both houses are existing.�
Applicant Cheryl Norris appeared before the Board and reviewed the proposed subdivision; the two acre lot has her existing house on it and her mother's house is on the remaining 33.12+/- acre parcel.
Chairman Ian Murray stated he reviewed her submission and had no questions.� He asked if there were any Board questions; there were none.
Ken Martin, Engineer for the Town, questioned the location of the septic system on both lots.
Applicant Cheryl Norris showed the locations of the wells and septic areas on the map.
Chairman Ian Murray told the Applicant to have her surveyor plot those locations on the map and stated that it only has to be on the one map for the file.� He then stated the Board would like the Applicant to have an easement drawn up for the shared driveway for future purpose, just in case one were to ever sell and the Board also needs an updated deed reflecting the new boundary lines.
The Applicant stated there is a lower area on the other side of the property where a driveway could be put in, once a permit was obtained from NYS DOT.� And in the interim she can have the easement drawn up.
Chairman Ian Murray told her we can provide her a copy of the Town's language for the easement of the shared driveway in perpetuity and the easement can accompany the updated deed that is needed.� He then asked if there were any questions of the Board; there were none.� Chairman Ian Murray then stated we will advertise for a public hearing for the July meeting.
The Applicant thanked the Board.
Returning
Public Hearing - Special Use Permit
Frank Owens #18-04����������������������������������������������������������� Representative:� Garry Robinson
62 Louden Rd.
Saratoga Springs,
NY 12866
S/B/L 157.-1-29
Rural Residential
Location:� NYS Rt. 29, west of Saratoga Apple
Returning Applicant seeks a special use permit to open a restaurant concession business at 1167 Rt. 29.� The 1.12 acre parcel has 413 feet of frontage.
Garry Robinson appeared on behalf of the Applicant.� He and the Board reviewed the questions the Board had at the last meeting.� Garry Robinson said he met with Army Corp. yesterday (June 19, 2018) and walked the wetlands,� went to the edge of the property and looking at the grades of the neighboring property, he thinks it's discontinuous wetlands.� He stated he was supposed to receive something from Army Corp. but as of yet he� hasn't. �He added they need do nothing if only a tenth of an acre is disturbed, aside from notifying them.
Concerning the fill and test pits, they did test pits and he showed the Board the location of the test pits on the map.� He had Building Inspector Gil Albert there and stated the Department of Health came out.� He said he tried to show them that the area had fill already and at one time it was all a wet area, but had been filled in.� Once he gets approval and starts with the fill, he'll apply with the Department of Health.� He will have them, along with Building Inspector Gil Albert, come back to the site and test pits will be done as part of his Department of Health application.
He added there was concern about getting NYS Department of Health (DOH) approval. They are seeking DOH approval for concession stands and they have to get commissary approval for water and where they dump the sewage.� Their well water pump and quality must be tested �and they also need to give DOH their septic system design.� He stated he's given them a copy of his plan and said he also talked to Mike Shaw.
Garry Robinson then stated he met with Chad Corbet of NYS Department of Transportation (DOT).� He said the Applicant has 114'� in front but Chad had concerns and stated he wants it smaller, so now they'll have 80' in front.� He showed the 40' of required pavement for the apron on the map and stated they will have one lane of ingress and two lanes for egress.
Garry Robinson also stated that for the sewage concern, they are putting in grease trap/container removal system for each concession trailer.� Concerning lighting, he doesn't have it yet but is expecting it Friday.�
He estimates that 70% of customers will use the facilities and that the system is similar to a three bedroom house - about 300 gallons per day.�
Chairman Ian Murray responded he wants to see the Army Corp. determination letter prior to approval.�
Garry Robinson responded that the woman from Army Corp. looked at his plan and told him to just build it and then submit it to them.�
Chairman Ian Murray questioned potable water and what they are doing.
Garry Robinson responded he anticipates no issue and may put in an U.V. system.
Chairman Ian Murray replied the Board will need sample details for the record.
Garry Robinson said he'll do it for the DOH.
Chairman Ian Murray stated he wants it in detail for the record.� He then asked him to explain about the grease trap and dumping it.�
Garry Robinson replied that the Applicant will put the grease in a container and dump it; perhaps at the Waste Water Treatment Plant in Schuylerville, adding they won't be dumping it out in the backyard.
�
Chairman Ian Murray stated that was his question; he then asked if they would subscribe to a service for that.
Garry Robinson replied he doesn't think there will be enough grease for that and you have to pay for it.� He thinks it's something the Applicant will just take care of, taking it downtown to the waste water treatment plant, or there is an option to pay someone to come do it; either way, as long as it's treated before it's discharged.
Chairman Ian Murray believes it is a more appropriate solution to use a service.
Chairman Ian Murray questioned the driveway overburden with the proposed changes with the extensive width that is there.� He asked if they will be cutting that back into culvert, leaving it as is, or are they going to put some barriers up.
Garry Robinson replied that he talked to NYS DOT about leaving it the way it is, as the water runs down across the front and goes down to the side.� He said Chad Corbet of DOT was fine with that.� They won't be there in the winter so if it freezes over the top, it's okay and it will still run.� What they are going to do is take out any hard surface and put topsoil there on the sides and just seed it
Chairman Ian Murray responded that is what he was looking; maintain it as lawn and they can put a couple of identifiers there to define the entrance.� He added that seeing as there have been issues with lighting on that corridor of Rt. 29, the Board would like to see the proposed lighting prior to approval.�
Laurie Griffen questioned the time frame for Army Corp. and NYS DOH notifications.� She also questioned the Applicant's realistic start date/ time for the project.�
Garry Robinson stated that Army Corp. said it would be a couple of weeks but DOH may take longer.� If he gets contingent approval tonight he will submit to them tomorrow.� He said he gave them the plans when they were out there last Thursday.�
Chairman Ian Murray questioned that he submitted the sanitary plan to DOH already?
Garry Robinson stated yes, when they were out there last Thursday.
Chairman Ian Murray clarified by questioning if it were the plans submitted to him or a design system.
Garry Robinson responded the plans that he, the Chairman, has.
Ken Martin, Engineer for the Town, questioned what type of system he's putting in, because right now he's showing a shallow system although from the documents he submitted, it's either a raised system or a mound system, which system is it?
Garry Robinson replied it depends on how you look at it.
He then said he doesn't believe his Applicant is going to do it this year, so he's going to put the fill in.� Once they get approval, he will put fill straight across there and above it.� Right now they have the grading plan and they have fill around it, so there's going to be another two feet on that.� Once it's there and grass grows, then its existing soils.� That is what they're doing, so it will be a shallow system on top of that.�
Chairman Ian Murray responded they want fill in place for a year prior to the system installation,
which is standard practice for the Town.
Garry Robinson replied he's never heard a year; he's heard a winter and Chairman Ian Murray responded a year is standard practice for the Town.
Building Inspector/Zoning Officer Gil Albert added you need to let it compact down.
Garry Robinson replied once it's in place they'll perc it, as you would any other system.� Once the grass grows he'll have Mike Shaw come out, look at the holes again and they'll have a shallow system.
Chairman Ian Murray responded they're not going to perc right away, so they're not planning on getting the operation up and running until next year, is that correct?�
Garry Robinson replied he thinks the plan is to build the building this year, get things ready, have most everything in place this year and begin operation next year.
Chairman Ian Murray asked if there were any Board questions; there were none.� He stated there are some missing pieces to this and he's not comfortable making any decision at this time, even if they put conditions on it.�
�Robert McConnell questioned if the Board gets something from Army Corp., a conditional approval can then be given for this step, if he needs it to move everything else forward.
Chairman Ian Murray responded if Army Corp., said they would get their response back in two weeks, hold them to it.
Garry Robinson stated there is no holding them to anything.
Chairman Ian Murray stated, to answer Bob's question, he would like to see the release of determination.� If we get that within a few weeks or by next month, we can go forward.
Garry Robinson asked if they have to come back before the Board.
Chairman Ian Murray stated they have to come back next month because the Board is looking for the release of determination from Army Corp.
Garry Robinson said if they get it to the Board, that's the only piece that's left.
Chairman Ian Murray stated he is uncomfortable making a conditional approval tonight.� He first needs to see that release of determination from Army Corp. and then he can make conditional on DOH approval.� He asked the Board for their opinions and after a brief discussion, it was the sentiment of the Board as well.
Proof of Notice
having been furnished by newspaper on April 15, 2018 and June 14, 2018, Chairman
Ian Murray opened the Public Hearing at 8:12 p.m., asking those
wishing to speak, to please stand and state their name and address.� Seeing as no one wished to speak, Chairman Ian Murray closed the Public
Hearing at 8:13 p.m.
Ken Martin, Engineer for the Town, stated he has concerns of the field and will call Mike Shaw, Army Corp. of Engineers, as he is uncomfortable with this.� He wants to know how Army Corp. is looking at the system.�
Chairman Ian Murray reiterated if they get a letter from Army Corp. by next month, the Board could give conditional approval.
Returning
Chairman Ian Murray
stated he wanted to make a short statement before they get started on the next
application: There was a letter that was circulated to the Board and he wanted
to clear up some misconceptions.� He is
not a small or little person; he's not going to stoop to the level of the letter.
He thinks everyone knows his commitment to this Town.� He doesn't show up when there is something he
doesn't like; he eats, sleeps and drinks it.�
He showed up when the basement leaked/flooded in this building to help
out, he shows up for the different Boards he serves on, he builds parks for the
Town, for our children, and he thinks everyone knows his commitment to our
Town, so most of the letter was untrue.�
In regards and in defense of his daughter, he thought the letter was
very slanderous.� His daughter is a 25
year old millennial who is a very hard worker. She is third generation in his
small business, she works for him and she does do wedding planning on the
side.� She went to Schenectady Community
College and Plattsburgh for Hospitality and Event Planning and she grew up in
the right family where she learned good morals, respect, hard work and good
ethics.� She is a very hard worker.� But, he added, he owes some of that credit to
another gentleman that she worked for in the room right here, by the name of Steve
Sullivan, who also taught her hard work, good ethics, good morals and
respect.� And it is not anything like it
says in the letter.� She was offered no
job here, she's got no interest in this company (named in the letter), she does
work there once in a while and she did two weddings last year, but it has
nothing to do with the Maranville application and he thinks it was
slanderous.� He just wanted to lay this
out there and he will not recuse himself."
Special Use Permit Amendment Conference
Mary T. Maranville
& Kevin A. Dott #17-14� ������ Rep.:�
Stephanie Ferradino, Attorney
257 N. Alvarado
Ave.���������������������������������������������� ���������� 63 Putnam St. Suite 202
Ojai, CA 93023������������������������������������������������������������������� Saratoga
Springs, NY 12866
S/B/L 155.-1-63.2
Rural Residential
Location:� 727 Rt. 29
Returning Applicant seeks to amend her special use permit, which currently allows events for up to 80 people and 40 vehicles.� She would like to be permitted 200 people. She also rents the existing house which has no special use permit at this time.
The Applicant's Attorney, Stephanie Ferradin,o and Steve
Sullivan of Longfellows and Old Brian Inn Restaurants, appeared on behalf of
the Applicant.� The Applicant's Attorney
read the following statement, quote "In the short span of my involvement
in this application for an amended special use permit, there has been an
alarming amount of misinformation, improperly disseminated information and lack
of written confirmation of statements made about the land, use and project. The
lack of concern for the truthfulness in word and facts has been damaging to my
client�s business, my legal practice and to your fellow volunteer and elected
board members in the town of Saratoga. In order that my words do not get
misconstrued, I am submitting this history of my client�s ownership in order
that the actual facts and statements be accurately reflected and made part of
the town�s file. Following this meeting, I will provide this statement in
writing and electronically to the town for its inclusion verbatim in the
minutes of the meeting and the town�s records on this file.
Together with this statement,
I am submitting a FOIL request seeking the audio recordings of the April, May
and June 2018 meetings. As the minutes have not been a verbatim reflection of
the statements contained in the meetings, it is necessary to preserve these
tapes, both in the town�s files and my own, in the event it becomes necessary
in the future to know exactly the statements which were made during the
meeting.
Evolution of Business at the
Site and Approval Process
At the November 16, 2016
meeting of the planning board, the current owners of DeMaranville Farm were
issued a special use permit which would allow agricultural education, farm to
table events and weddings. During the November meeting, Mary told the board
that she has �educated 15,000 children and in order to continue she needs to do
fundraising and small weddings to raise the money needed for her business.�
November 16, 2016 minutes. The board granted the special use permit. It is
important to remember that the board was aware and anticipated that the events
would be larger than the 80 people/40 parking spaces approved at that meeting.
This is reflected in the Notice of Action of the board which included the
condition that �If additional property is purchased for expansion of parking or
expansion of business, Applicant must come back before the board.� Consistent
with that approval, we are back before the board.
Shortly after the meeting,
and in reliance upon the approval for the uses, Mary and Kevin at significant
cost purchased the property which contained the farm and thereafter, the
additional strip of land referred to in the condition of the planning
approvals. It appears that my clients may not have been aware of the capacity
of the barn before they bought it, as during the November meeting, Mary advised
the board that the barn could not hold more than 100 and all events would be on
a small scale. November 16, 2016 minutes.
Within a short period of time,
my clients learned that in order to use the property for any allowable use, it
would be necessary to invest an additional +$150,000 into the property to bring
it up to the building code requirements for the full capacity of the barn based
on the barn�s square footage rather than the approved occupancy. The owners
were not aware that this would be required at the time they sought approval nor
in advance of their purchase. This information was discovered upon application
for the building permit. This significant infusion of additional, unanticipated
funds caused them to seek some viable revenue stream for the property in order
to get it prepared for the approved use.
At the May 2018 planning
board meeting, this explanation was met with resistance and attack, including
comments from the board that the unanticipated expenses were not the problem of
the planning board and that that was what banks are for. While these statements
may be factually accurate, the main purpose of my statements was to demonstrate
that my client�s business has been an evolving process, as many entrepreneurs
find when they pursue an unfamiliar path. My clients have learned much during
this process and have sought to address concerns raised by town staff, planning
board members and their neighbors in a manner that has been responsive to the
concerns raised. The cost of this learning experience has not been
insignificant, and it has taken a personal toll, an emotional toll and
financial toll on every person involved. Rather than continuing in a
contentious manner, it would be beneficial to work together toward a plan that
can work. I have requested this from the town planning board, the elected
officials, and the neighbors. This request for a collaborative approach has
often, but not always, been met with resistance. Despite this, my clients have
sought to attempt to make things right. In some areas, they have succeeded. In
others, they continue to strive toward that goal.
Update since last meeting:
At the last meeting, you
heard from Dan Galvin who had a September wedding booked and inquired what
would happen for weddings booked after the June ones which were granted the
temporary certificate of occupancy. Two days later, his attorney contacted me
while I was on vacation during the holiday weekend. I advised him I would get
back to him upon my return, which I did. While we were working toward a mutual
resolution to extricate his client from her binding contract and return her
deposit, I was contacted by a reporter from the Times Union who advised she was
contacted by Dan�s fianc�. I reached back out to this attorney to tell him of
the call from the reporter and suggested he may want to ask her to stand down
if she wanted to resolve the matter amicably. Three days later, at 9pm he
advised that Channel 10 reached out to his client and told me that if I wanted
to get this resolved, I should let him know ASAP. Twenty minutes later, I asked
him to send me a general release so we could return the deposit. I have not
heard back from him since June 8.
As a result of the Time Union
article, couples who had booked events in the fall have inquired if they would
be able to hold their weddings as scheduled. My clients have proactively
reached out to those with whom fall events had been scheduled. I prepared a
letter which was disseminated to them advising them of this meeting and letting
them know that the owners of the farm understood that they may need or want to
make other arrangements in advance of or after this meeting. To date, six have
terminated their events and four are awaiting information from tonight�s
meeting. Of those four, the October events have 100 and 100-125 guests
respectively and the September events are larger sized, between 150-180.
During June, the owners also
obtained quotes and entered into a contract to have the sprinklers installed
pursuant to the state variance decision. It is anticipated that this step will
be taken in July.
On June 9, a wedding was
hosted at the site pursuant to the temporary certificate of occupancy. The parking
lot was less than half full and the couple utilized shuttles for many of the
guests. The chair of the planning board stopped by during the event to
determine if the parking, operation of the site and music were compliant with
the expectations set at prior meetings.
The last significant action
taken this month has been the exploration of a partnership with Longfellow�s
restaurant to form a cooperative relationship to address many of the concerns
raised by the board and neighbors in hosting events. Steve Sullivan is present
as part of our team to address this potential collaboration with the board. The
benefits of this collaboration would allow an established and well-respected
local business to provide on-site and local management of the property. Lodging
for the wedding couple could occur at his establishment rather than the home
and his shuttles could be used for transporting guests. In addition, the
connection with this particular business owner would allow Mary to be able to
turn her focus to turn back toward her original intent, agricultural education,
and allow the events to be run by a business with expertise in this area.
Longfellows and Olde Bryan Inn have a history of working with local schools to
host tours and events, and my clients are exploring whether it is possible to
expand that offering to include the farm.
In order to advance this
potential collaboration, it is necessary to get the barn properly functional to
host events pursuant to the existing approvals. To that end, we seek a clear
understanding tonight about what steps are necessary for that to occur to allow
the issuance of the permanent certificate of occupancy.
Finally, at the last meeting,
the board sought a comprehensive submission of materials which clearly
articulated in one packet what information the planning board should be
reviewing. The board requested that we provide a submission which contained the
applicant�s realistic expectations based on square footage and applicant�s
needs. Given the significant and substantial events of the last month, we have
been unable to compile all the information in a meaningful way that is
responsive to the board�s request. We anticipate returning with this submission
as soon as we are able to produce it in a thoughtful manner and are able to
provide a plan which is realistic, feasible and responsive to the town and
community�s comments.� I'm going to turn
this over to Steve Sullivan briefly to speak about the potential plans for
collaboration and then I will come back and would like to address two more
issues with the Board." �Unquote
Steve Sullivan addressed the
Board, explaining that he's been in business in Saratoga Springs going back 39
years and Longfellows has been in the wedding business for 22 years and has a
lot of experience with weddings.� He met
Mary, went out to her farm, which is a beautiful property and great location, but
not a whole lot of parking.� They talked
about the collaboration of providing rooms for guests, and said they have
shuttles going back and forth from Longfellows and they would be able to take
care of transportation and parking needs.�
Looking at the initial
certificate of occupancy - 80 guests, 40 spaces, he didn't think that would be
a problem at all.� Music, he thought
would end at 10:00 p.m.� The wedding at
that particular venue, being able to take advantage of the late afternoon and
early evening sunsets, would be perfect for that kind of business.� They are very interested in working with Mary
and Kevin on the project.� The sweet spot
for this business is 120, although he understands the limitations of the permit.�
Chairman Ian Murray
questioned Steve Sullivan that for collaboration, they would enter into a
contract and he, Steve Sullivan, would be the operator - exclusively?
Steve Sullivan replied their
plan would be to manage the event, from initial telephone calls, tours of the
property, making sure any issue is taken care of prior to the event and
following up at the end, making sure all is cleaned up.� He runs his businesses very responsibly, they
are good neighbors, they control the music that is in the restaurant, they
control the music when they go out to other properties with regard to volume
and they've never had any issues at all.�
Chairman Ian Murray stated he should make a disclaimer
that he's eaten at both of the restaurants and has worked with Steve Sullivan in
the past
.�
Chairman Ian Murray stated
that Steve Sullivan had made a comment about the size of the venue, kind of
fits the needs right now, but when he finished up he said 120.
Steve Sullivan responded 120
is really where the business is at.
Chairman Ian Murray
questioned the typical size of this type of function at Longfellows.
Steve Sullivan replied about
120.
Robert McConnell stated his
concern, going back to 80, it seemed like a reasonable number, an acceptable
number and it's jumped up three-fold.� He
asked Steve Sullivan if he could get by with 80.
Steve Sullivan responded they
can get by with 80, but in a perfect world the number would be 120.� He thinks there has to be trust and he thinks
he can aid in bringing that trust to this.
Patrick Hanehan questioned if
Steve Sullivan foresees events being held at both Longfellows and this farm at
the same time, and if so, does he have enough capacity for the parking overflow.
Steve Sullivan replied yes, they
have additional properties they use for overflow.
Robert McConnell said this
originally was proposed to be infrequent. He questioned if this will be every
weekend and during the summer.
Steve Sullivan replied he's
thinking a wedding each weekend, which he doesn't feel is an over use of the
property.� There may be some corporate
opportunities during the week - parties of 20 - 40 or 50 that may be interested
in the space.� They'd be shuttled there or
there'd be no more than 40 cars on site.�
George Olsen said that Steve
Sullivan mentioned he would be doing the management for the events, does he
have a contract to be at every event?�
Whenever there is an event, will he be there managing it?� If someone wants to have their wedding there
and bring in their own caterer, will that be allowed?�
Steve Sullivan responded that
they are in conversation about all of that right now.� He is looking at this as an expansion of
Longfellows.
Chairman Ian Murray stated to
further expand on Robert McConnell's question, �not knowing Steve Sullivan's business that
well, what is the wedding cycle and the peak times?
Steve Sullivan replied April
- July, September, October, rarely in August.�
Laurie Griffen questioned if
they will operate in winter as well.
Steve Sullivan responded the
three seasons due to the barns condition, not winter.
Chairman Ian Murray asked if
there were any Board questions; there were none.� He thanked Steve Sullivan.
The Applicant's Attorney then
stated, quote: "Two more items of business, the first is what do we do
with these fall events?� We've got two
left in September and two in October and the two in October obviously are
smaller sized, but then they're weddings.�
People need to know - they need to send out their invitations and we're
looking for some direction from the Board on whether these can be held.� I think I know the answer to that, but I
would like to hear some direction from the Board." Unquote
Laurie Griffen said hearing
what they've just heard, if the management agreement goes in, if there are 80,
okay, if over 80 then it goes to Longfellows.�
There's an option.� If the
management agreement goes through it's great and we can go forward without
having to start the process all over.
Patrick Hanehan stated you're
talking management belonging to Longfellows and anything over 80 goes to
Longfellows.
Laurie Griffen said right,
they're permitted for 80.� Anything over,
they have the location at Longfellows if it's not already booked, they do have
that option.
George Olsen added so we're
not really doing anything.� They have
current approval for 80 and 40 cars and they are okay as long as they conform
to the existing permit.�
Chairman Ian Murray as it
sits now, they have approval for 80 people and 40 cars.� How the Applicant wants to proceed he isn't
sure.� He thinks there are differing
opinions, he doesn't believe they need to start over he believes it is an
amendment, which he has stated before and whether they want to march on with
that, they can let the Board know.
The Applicant's Attorney
stated, quote: "We got the sense that if we submitted a little bit more
information, it would just come with resistance because the last thing you said
to us was 'which packet are we looking at, are we looking at the submission
from a year ago, we looking at the one from two weeks ago' and I did not want
to be in the position where I was having that discussion again.� I think the Board,� primarily Ms. Griffen, said 'I want one
packet of information and I want to know what's before us today' and I don't
want to give you that without being thoughtful in it and without really having
a concrete relationship in place in advance of us saying 'well we've had a chat
with Longfellows and we think we're going in that direction.'� I want to know that we've been able to do
that.� We just weren't able to do that
within the time frame." Unquote
Laurie Griffen stated she
would like to know that too.
Chairman Ian Murray stated he
has all the information that the Board has received through the application
since 2016.
Robert McConnell stated he's
still disturbed.� He doesn't want to be
the one to be the pain, but he knows when they first discussed this, this was
supposed to be infrequent.� He knows
Steve will do a great job, but if he's a neighbor he doesn't know if he'd want
a wedding next door every weekend and you're talking about into November.� He's sure there'll be corporate events as
they've talked about that, so you're talking about a fairly large business and
he's sure they'll do a good job, but that's not how it was sold.
Brandon Myers added he
agreed.� His view is they need to decide
if they'll stay with what they have at 80, or if going higher and a wedding
event each weekend and a corporate events facility, they need to begin again.� He knows Steve will do a good job, but there
are impacts with this and a lot of things to consider.�
Christopher Koval stated
there have been many problems over the past 12 months and it doesn't look like
anything the Board approved.� The Board
needs to see a firm business plan; with Steve, it certainly changes and makes
it better.
The Applicant's Attorney
stated, quote: "And that's why, in part, why we didn't make a submission,
we didn't have information and I don't think that we should be submitting
information until we understand what we have to do on our end with what you're
asking.� We will proceed with that in the
future.� I think to go back to my
original question, I think that I'd like the Board to articulate on the events
in the fall.� I think what I hear the
Board saying is that the events in the fall cannot occur if they're in excess
of 80 people, am I correct on that?" Unquote
Chairman Ian Murray said we
can take a poll; the Board said yes.
The Applicant's Attorney
stated, quote: "So then my second question turns to something that I heard
on the previous application, which is that the bar seems to move a bit - you
say do one thing,� and we do that one
thing, then there's another thing, and we just keep stepping and moving and the
costs are not insignificant, so in order to take that next step with Longfellows
or anyone else, we need to understand what it is we are agreeing to and so for
the certificate of occupancy for the 80/40, what are the missing links and I
think your Building Inspector has pretty good sense of that and we would like
kind of a laundry list.� What needs to be
done to issue a permanent certificate of occupancy?" Unquote
George Olsen stated a
certificate of occupancy is not a Planning Board issue.
Building Inspector/Zoning
Officer Gil Albert explained the temporary certificate of occupancy is good
until the end of the month.� Once the
wedding takes place this weekend, nothing will take place there until the
sprinklers, stairs and railings are in place.�
Then a temporary certificate of occupancy will be issued which is good
for two years and will be for the number of people the Planning Board approves.�
Laurie Griffen said with
Longfellows in, it puts a new light on the project, but the Board needs to see
more.
Brandon Myers added the
farm-to-table can align under restaurant but wedding venue's not listed.
Chairman Ian Murray said we
heard the sentiment of the Board but the Applicant's Attorney requested more
information and he doesn't think they thoroughly answered her question.� The Board told her they wanted more
information, but did not say what they wanted.�
The Applicant's Attorney
stated, quote: "I think I feel comfortable that I understand the direction
and when we� are able to produce what it
is that we're looking for and I understand that it needs to include the
statement that we have a contract with somebody who's going to be managing the
property.� I think I'm good to go."
Unquote
Chairman Ian Murray said
okay, he just wanted to be sure there wasn't anything else that we're
missing.� He asked Brandon what he thinks
is lacking that should be included.
Brandon Myers responded he
thinks that conversation and that review would start under new application with
SEQR, environmental impacts, noise, traffic, and other things.
Robert McConnell said he has
concerns and it goes back to getting input from the neighbors now that this has
changed dramatically; it's the numbers that bother him most.� Stopping this at 10 p.m. goes a long way, it
really does.
George Olsen said he has a
concern with the contract with Steve Sullivan. He doesn't own the facility and
if he decides not to continue with it, then that's an issue.� It gives a certain comfort level, but he's
concerned that they're approving something based on his managing it, but what
guarantee is there that he'll be there next year or two years down the road.
Building Inspector/Zoning
Officer Gil Albert said they still have to deal with the house rental, which
needs to be addressed.� The renters don't
care about neighbors with the noise etc.
Chairman Ian Murray stated that
is not in our control, the neighbors should then call the police.
Chairman Ian Murray stated
the Board nor the Building Inspector/Zoning Officer Gil Albert should be
policing that.
Building Inspector/Zoning
Officer Gil Albert said he understands.� He
then said we have B & Bs in our regulations but not Air B & Bs, which
are totally different.� States have
regulations on it, but municipalities across the country are wrestling with
this right now.�
Chairman Ian Murray responded
he thinks they follow Saratoga Springs' lead on this, as the track started 100+
years ago and it was built on Air B & Bs.
Building Inspector/Zoning
Officer Gil Albert said he's the one who has to answer the complaints on this
and thinks it needs to be addressed at some point in time.
George Olsen added that's a
good point because it was presented to them as a residence, as an owner
occupied and they would be there to manage that facility.� That is not the case we're hearing
tonight.�
Building Inspector/Zoning
Officer Gil Albert said it's a different scenario than renting your house out.
Chairman Ian Murray asked if
there were any further questions; there were none.
The Applicant's Attorney
thanked the Board for their time.
Returning
Old Business: Chairman Ian Murray stated he received two phone calls of complaints concerning Tom Carringi's Point Breeze Marina property.� They told him Rt. 9P was blocked as he was moving boats.� Chairman Ian Murray suggested they call the police concerning that.� After a discussion with the Board on how he has never been in compliance with his permit, the Board wants to see him clean up his property and become compliant with his permit.
New Business: None
Meeting Adjourned
The next regular meeting will be held Wednesday, July 25, 2018 at
Respectfully submitted,
Linda A. McCabe
Planning Clerk