JANUARY 27, 2004

7:30 PM



Chairman Ian Murray called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.


Clerk Ruth Drumm called the roll.  Chairman Ian Murray – present, Susan Cummings  – present, Ralph Pascucci – present, Albert Baker – present, Paul Griffen – present, Laurie Griffen – present, Robert Park – present, and Alternate Barney Drumm – present


Also attending: Kenneth Martin, Town Engineer, and Ruth Drumm, Clerk


Approval of Minutes: All board members present had read the minutes of the November 25, 2003 meeting.  A motion was made by Sue Cummings and seconded by Robert Park to accept the minutes of November 25, 2003 as written.  Chairman Ian Murray – aye, Sue Cummings – aye, Ralph Pascucci – aye, Albert Baker – aye, Paul Griffen – aye, Robert Park - aye, and Laurie Griffen - aye.  Carried 7-0


Chairman Ian Murray asked the board members to consider changing the meeting day to Wednesday evenings instead of the present Tuesday.  This would enable the board to meet upstairs where there is more space, better lighting and heat, and more parking since court is not in session on Wednesday evenings. 




#03-29 June T. Conover

            100 Coveville Rd.

            Schuylerville, NY  12871   (S/B/L 182. -1. -44., Rural District)


Applicant is seeking a three-lot subdivision, splitting two lots off from a 10 +/- acre parcel with the existing residence remaining with the applicant.  The applicant’s lot will be 5 +/- acres with the two new parcels for her sons at 2.87 +/- and 2.86 +/- acres.   Jim Vianna, surveyor, representing June Conover explained that he designed the subdivision around the wetlands buffer area and that a Negative declaration from the DEC is on file.  He expects approval within a week for the driveway to cross over the wetland area.  It was noted that the site distance of the driveway is good and it is over 400 feet.  An application will be made to both the State and County for a curb cut permit.  Jim Vianna has talked with Jay Janzack of the Department of Transportation and they have no issue with it.  Perc and Pit tests have been done and they will need raised systems. Engineer Paul Male is designing them but is not finished at this time.  It was noted that the town had decided to go with engineer-designed systems that the applicant’s engineer takes full responsibility for.  Neighbor notification has been done and the Agricultural Data Statement has been sent to the County.  Jim Vianna stated that all applications have been made and the wetlands have been approved.  


Proof of notice having been furnished a Public Hearing was held.  No one came forward, for or against, this case.


Chairman Ian Murray stated that any approval would be contingent on the Engineering review, the raised system and the County’s review.  Ken Martin noted that the buildable line of lot #2 it is only 198.27 feet, not the 200 feet that is needed.  It was suggested that they could either move the line or go to the Zoning Board of Appeals for a variance.  Jim Vianna agreed to move the line so there will be the required 200 feet.


Ralph Pascucci made the motion to approve the subdivision contingent upon Ken Martin’s review, the County’s review including the Agricultural Data Statement and upon moving the buildable line on Lot #2 to the 200 feet required.  Paul Griffen seconded this motion. Chairman Ian Murray – aye, Sue Cummings – aye, Ralph Pascucci – aye, Albert Baker – aye, Paul Griffen – aye, Robert Park - aye, and Laurie Griffen - aye.  Carried 7-0  Granted with conditions.



Case #04-01: Robert L. and Jean Tarrant, Applicants 

                      41 Cliffside Drive

                      Saratoga Springs, NY 12866    (S/B/L 167-1-16, Conservancy District)

Owners: Edward and Florence Charbonneau


Applicant is seeking a Special Use Permit to establish a marina on 2.0 acres fronting Fish Creek off County Road 68. A rowing center will be at this location with only one powerboat for the coach.  Chairman Ian Murray noted that the lot lines appear cut up and in order to remedy this it was suggested that first he subdivide Parcel 1 from Parcel 2 and then combine S/B/L#’s 167.00-9 and 167.00-1-17 with Parcel 2 and then an easement could be granted.  After some discussion with Robert Tarrant and Chairman Ian Murray it was agreed that this would be best.  Robert Tarrant will rework the plan and come back next month. He will need to go to the Zoning Board of Appeals for a variance for area and sidelines, since he doesn’t have the required 3 acres for a marina. 


Proof of notice having been furnished a Public Hearing was held.  No one came forward, for or against, this case.


Town Engineer, Kenneth Martin stated that a full SEQR would be required with the Planning Board as lead agency.  The long form SEQR was given to Robert Tarrant.  He will return with the reworked plan.  TABLED UNTIL NEXT MONTH.












Case #04-02: Alvin and Gay Gamage

                      226 County Rd. 67 (& corner of Wagman’s Ridge Rd)

                      Saratoga Springs, NY 12866  (S/B/L 181-1-2, Rural District)


Applicant is seeking to split off a 4-acre parcel from the 15-acre parcel for conveyance to their son, Rawson Gamage, with the 11.19 acres remaining with the applicants.  Jim Vianna, surveyor, spoke for the Gamage’s.  Jim Vianna stated that he did the survey and that the neighbor notification was done.  He said that the Agricultural Data Statement was sent to the County and the site distance from the driveway is sufficient.  He noted that the Deep Pit Test engineering data is on the survey map and that the Perc test was good. 


Proof of notice having been furnished a Public Hearing was held.  No one came forward, for or against, this case.


A motion to approve the Gamage subdivision was introduced by Paul Griffen and seconded by Albert Baker.  Chairman Ian Murray – aye, Sue Cummings – aye, Ralph Pascucci – aye, Albert Baker – aye, Paul Griffen – aye, Robert Park - aye, and Laurie Griffen - aye.  Carried 7-0    The final plans were left with the clerk for the Town Engineer’s stamp and the Chairman’s stamp of approval.  APPROVED



Case # 04-04: Walter Taras

                        173 County Rd. 69

                        Schuylerville, NY 12871 (S/B/L 182-2-15.11, Rural District)


The applicant is seeking a two-lot subdivision separating the existing farmhouse onto a 2+- acre parcel from the larger parcel of 178.32 acres of vacant land.  It was determined that this is a minor subdivision at this time.  Chairman Ian Murray noted that the applicant has another plan to separate 4 one-acre lots from the larger parcel.  If this is done within three years it will then become a major subdivision and will require a full SEQR with DOH approval.  Walter Taras requested a checklist of requirements for the major subdivision and a full SEQR form.  They will be available next week.


Proof of notice having been furnished a Public Hearing was held.  No one came forward, for or against, this case.


It was noted that the applicant needs an Ag Statement on the survey map.  He said that he would ask his surveyor, Paul Tommel to put it on the survey map and then he would send the map to the Town Engineer Kenneth Martin.


A motion was made by Albert Baker to approve the subdivision contingent upon the Ag Statement being included on the map and was seconded by Sue Cummings.  Chairman Ian Murray – aye, Sue Cummings – aye, Ralph Pascucci – aye, Albert Baker – aye, Paul Griffen – aye, Robert Park - aye, and Laurie Griffen - aye.  Carried 7-0  APPROVED WITH CONDITION.









Preliminary Subdivision Hearing:


David McKibbin, Applicant                           Owner: Joe Sano

1388 Lands End Rd.                                                    3709 White Angel Dr.

Hypoluxo Island, FL                                         North Las Vegas, Nevada


Applicant is seeking a 29-lot subdivision of the 123-acre parcel at the corner of Wagman’s Ridge Rd. and Stafford’s Bridge Rd (County Rd. 68)  (S/B/L 168-3-44.1   Rural District).  He is seeking 29 single family homes, one and two story of three or four bedrooms each with a town road through from Wagman’s Ridge Rd. to Stafford’s Bridge Rd (County Rd. 68). 


David McKibbin gave the history of his plight to develop the property starting back in August of 2003 when he initially requested a 36-unit tourist home on 12 acres with the balance a horse farm/riding stable.  The Special Use Permit for multi-use as a tourist home and breeding farm/riding stable was denied at a special meeting of the Planning Board held September 18, 2003 with a positive recommendation to the Zoning Board of Appeals. At the September 23, 2003 meeting of the Planning Board it was recommended that he go to the Town Board to request an amendment to the Zoning Regulations for the tourist home. David McKibbin then came back to the Planning Board on November 25, 2003 with a preliminary site plan seeking a special permit to support establishing four tourist home lots and a lot for the clubhouse (“Carolina Restaurant”).  In early January, Chairman Ian Murray contacted him that on the Town Attorney’s advise, the Planning Board did not have the authority to grant the proposal, as the Zoning Regulations would need to be amended.  He then decided to apply for a 29-lot subdivision. He spoke with Supervisor Thomas Wood on a new Zoning classification use being added to the Zoning regulations, which could be called an Agricultural Tourist Home which would require at least 100 contiguous acres plus further definition as the Town Board, the Town Attorney, and the Saratoga County Planning Board considers the amendment.  Last night he met with the neighbors, including Bob McConnell, on this new use and he was met with approval.  It was noted that not all the neighbors were in attendance.  Although tonight he is here seeking a 29-lot subdivision, he noted he might be back seeking approval of a special use permit for an Agricultural Tourist Home(s) if the Zoning Regulations are amended to include it.  


 The board reviewed the site plan presented, which included 29 two-acre lots with 200 feet of road frontage each.  Chairman Ian Murray noted that there might not be approval of 29 lots clustered or otherwise, since it depends on the land, its slopes, wetlands etc. and the Planning Board would likely require a site visit and workshop.  It was noted that a clean survey map with contours and features such as watercourses, wooded areas, cemeteries, etc. would be needed.   David McKibbin has requested a listing of requirements for the final steps of the process.  He will call Chairman Ian Murray in the next couple of days.   TABLED







Pre-Submission Conference:


Michael Giovanone, Applicant, represented by Garry Robinson, P.E., consulting engineer.   Applicant is seeking a special permit for multi-family housing located on Route 9P in the Lake Commercial District. (S/B/L 193.06-1-2)


Garry Robinson, returning with changes, presented the proposed development of three buildings with 12 units in each, for a total of 36 units, down from the 40 first proposed.  The site has 313 feet of road frontage and is now set back 130 feet from Route 9P on the board’s recommendation.  Ralph Pascucci and other board members voiced concerns with access to the units for fire protection and snow removal and possible parking along the access road that would also hamper access.  There was concern with a driveway accessing multiple units.  A plan was presented and considered with only one building in an L-shape of 40 units with firewalls between the common walls.   Garry Robinson stated a well would be drilled and that Department of Health requirements would be met, including routine testing of the well water.  Michael Giovanone commented that the buildings would be professionally managed and DOH requirements would be continually met.  Ralph Pascucci questioned building close to the wetlands and Garry Robinson replied that they are 150 feet from the wetlands and that the Army Corp of Engineers allows building 100 feet from wetlands.  Phil Griffen noted that the one building, L-shape is of concern for fire protection.  Ian Murray stated that he felt that the plan is still too extensive for the 4-acre parcel and should be cut down further. Michael Giovanone replied that after last month’s conference they reduced the number of units (density), added more green space, and increased the setbacks.  He said he has a proof of mailing to the neighbors and had not one negative response to his plan. His plan is to market it as senior housing.   He asked what the board would like to see on the property?


 After Chairman Ian Murray polled the board, it was concluded that the plan should be reworked to include two buildings with 16 apartment units each.  The plan needs to include signage, lighting, additional parking (grass block), and possibly a turn around.  The buildings should be moved back as far as possible and the plan should provide the best access for emergency vehicles.  Town Engineer Ken Martin noted that he has spoken to the Saratoga County Sewer District today and although there are not any restrictions, there are some problems that they would have to work with them on.  Chairman Ian Murray stated that the board would refer to the County on the issues of the definition of a multi-family dwelling, the width of the access road and the private road/driveway, one-use issue and the cul-de-sac.  Chairman Ian Murray also stated that he would check with the Town Board on the private road vs. the driveway, single use issue.   TABLED – REWORK PLAN













J.P. Komorny and Craig Alsdorf, Owners, and Leslie Pultz, representative

432 Broadway #4

Saratoga Springs, NY 12866


Applicants seeking information on Subdivision, and a Special Use Permit for their proposed project involving 49 +/- acres located along Route 29, between Beaver Street and Wall Street.  Located in the Rural Residential District. 


Craig Alsdorf spoke regarding their pre-conceptual meeting to see how the board receives their plan. Their plans for the 49 +/- acres, which is wooded with beautiful views are for a cluster housing development, approximately 20 homes with ¾ acre lots, and with an additional four (4) one million dollar homes on the 39.89 acre parcel A.  The Equestrian center with an associated condominium complex of two buildings with four units each is planned on the remaining 10-acre parcel B.


Chairman Ian Murray asked if any test pits have been dug and Craig Alsdorf replied no.  He mentioned that there are no DEC wetlands noted on the property.  Ian Murray suggested that Army Corp of Engineers wetlands might exist. Ian Murray also noted that the soil is heavy clay and will present septic problems.  Ian Murray suggested that they do some engineering work first to see what is feasible.   He then asked what is proposed for Phase 1.  Leslie Pultz replied the cluster development along the side road frontages. The board responded that we prefer clustering but not seeing the houses from the road, with more green space, using the conservation of land in keeping with the rural character of the town.  Craig Alsdorf reiterated that this is just in the initial stage.  It was mentioned that the Granger cemetery plot is located on the property and the plan is to make a memorial park around it.  It was suggested that Alice Zetterstrom could be contacted.  The town is not interested in taking possession of it but would like to see it memorialized.  The second phase, Parcel B, is the condominium complex with the Equestrian center on the 10 acre parcel along Route 29 at the corner of Wall Street.  Chairman Ian Murray suggested eliminating the Phase I cluster housing and going with the Equestrian Center with the million dollar homes.  He felt there are ACOE wetlands on the 10 acres of Parcel B, which may pose a problem.  Craig Alsdorf mentioned that they would increase the setbacks along Route 29.  Ralph Pascucci commented that it’s looking like a PUD and we don’t have a use for condominiums with a horse farm.  The plan has mixed uses.  It was suggested that they rework their plan and come back for another information session and then proceed with the application process. 










Lorraine and Nicholas Angelo

58 Whitney Road South

Saratoga Springs, NY 12866


Applicants would like to know if a Special Use Permit was needed to replace existing apartment houses at 28, 29 and 30 Saratoga Lake Road with five Townhouses.

The applicants were not present. 


Steve Mastaitis asked to speak to the board regarding property he owns next to Michael Giovanone’s on Route 9P (Lake Commercial District).  He has three acres with 200 feet of frontage.  He would like to remove the existing cottage and place a Professional Legal Office Building on the property.  Ralph Pascucci stated that Professional Office Buildings are a special permitted use and he would need to apply for it.  Steve Mastaitis was encouraged to purchase a Zoning Regulation Book and arrange to come back before the board for information and then again when he is ready for the Pre-submission review.  He purchased the book from the clerk and wasn’t sure when he would be ready to return.


Old Business:  Chairman Ian Murray again asked the board if there were objections to moving the monthly meeting night from Tuesday to Wednesday? There were preferences but nobody that could not make it on Wednesday.  Sue Cummings made the motion to hold the monthly meeting on the fourth Wednesday of the month at 7:30 p.m. and Robert Park seconded this.   Chairman Ian Murray – aye, Sue Cummings – aye, Ralph Pascucci – aye, Albert Baker – aye, Paul Griffen – aye, Robert Park - aye, and Laurie Griffen - aye.  Carried 7-0



New Business:  Supervisor Thomas Wood encouraged the board to identify and forward their suggestions on any Zoning regulation changes, clarifications, or additions they feel are needed to their chairman or any Town Board Member by February 9, 2004 so they can be reviewed by a panel including our Town Attorney.  Amendments are then presented at a public hearing, and voted on by the Town Board.   Supervisor Thomas Wood also asked the board to give suggestions for fee increases for the application process for both the ZBA and Planning Board.  


Ralph Pascucci asked Supervisor Thomas Wood how do we enforce the Special Permitted Uses to be sure they are not varied and are adhered to completely?  Supervisor Thomas Wood agreed that it is a problem with no quick and easy solution. There can be stop work orders issued.  He suggested that when they are granted that it is made clearer to them that they must adhere to them completely. Someday maybe a temp could be hired to go back through the minutes and enter the Special Use Permits that have been granted in a computer so that it could be queried when questions arise.  Chairman Ian Murray asked Ken Martin how the Neilson Landing problem is going?  Ken Martin responded that he sent out a letter to Ingalls & Associates regarding the issues of completing runoff controls and no construction on a frozen subsurface.  The next step would be to stop issuing building permits for a project that is not living up to its responsibilities.

Chairman Ian Murray asked Supervisor Thomas Wood how the Agricultural Tourist Home special use classification would be worded?  Supervisor Wood replied that they are still working on the definition trying to structure it so that it will be compatible with the rural structure of the town.  At this point, by definition, it will be limited to operating commercial farms of at least 100 contiguous acres with a possible limit to their right to develop the property. The Town Board members contacted are in favor of the agricultural tourist home classification but will only go forward with it if the general consensus of the majority is in favor of it.  They will continue to work on the definition of the new classification. 


The next meeting will be Wednesday, February 25, 2004 at 7:30 p.m.


A motion to adjourn was made at 10:50 p.m. by Sue Cummings and seconded by Paul Griffen. Chairman Ian Murray – aye, Sue Cummings – aye, Ralph Pascucci – aye, Albert Baker – aye, Paul Griffen – aye, Robert Park - aye, and Laurie Griffen - aye.  Carried 7-0





Respectfully submitted,



Ruth L. Drumm




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