TOWN
OF
PLANNING BOARD
DRAFT MINUTES*
*Please Note: Minutes are not verbatim
February 27,
2019
Chairman
Ian Murray called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
Planning Clerk Linda McCabe called the roll: Chairman
Ian Murray – present, Laurie
Griffen – present, Patrick Hanehan – present, Robert
McConnell – absent, Joseph
Lewandowski – present, Brandon Myers – present,
George Olsen - present,
Alternate Christopher Koval - absent.
Also attending: Pat Eustis, Jude Eustis, Andrew Schneller, Larry
Macica, Doug & Carol Post, Gerald Magoolaghan, Anthony Cerrone, Jan Murphy,
Marci & Mike Dwyer, Sandra & Dave Reulet, Gary Squires, John Cashin and
Jonathon Tingley. (Sign-in sheet is on
file in the Clerk's office)
A motion was made by Laurie Griffen ,
seconded by Joseph Lewandowski, to accept the meeting minutes of January 23,
2019. Chairman Ian Murray – aye,
Laurie Griffen – aye, Patrick Hanehan – aye, Robert McConnell – absent, Joseph
Lewandowski – aye, Brandon Myers – aye, George Olsen - aye, Christopher Koval -
absent.
Carried 6 - 0
Approved
Continued Public Hearing for Special Use
Permit
Mr. & Mrs. Dwyer
#18-09
800 Rt. 29
Saratoga Springs,
NY 12866
S/B/L 168.-3-73
Conservancy District
Returning applicants seek a Special Use Permit to open a paddle storage and day use facility for recreational kayaks, stand-up paddle boards, canoes, etcetera. They will rent storage space to individuals and provide people direct access to Fish Creek for recreational paddling.
Chairman Ian Murray stated the Public Hearing on this application was opened last month and will continue this evening and public comments are limited to 3 minutes per person.
Chairman Ian Murray opened the Public Hearing at 7:33 p.m., asking those wishing to speak, to please keep their comments limited to 3 minutes, stand and state their name and address:
1. Pat Eustis, 140 Bryant's Bridge Rd., read a lengthy letter to the Board, noting he emailed and mailed numerous letters to the Board, as well as a letter from his parents. (Please note those letters and emails are all on file.) In summary, he said he's a 25 year resident and his concerns are safety issues on the water, with the possibility of adding an additional 120 kayaks or canoes in that area of the creek. His family and many residents on that road are power boat users and he feels it will alter their ability to navigate their boats in that area of Fish Creek. He feels it will be an unfair burden on many residents. He thinks the dock, although parallel to the Applicant's property, could be perilous for power boats and put paddlers in danger of being hit. There are a number of safety issues and liability concerns. He's also concerned with traffic on Rt. 29 and possible accidents. He added he is not opposed to anyone trying to start a business and putting their land to any legal use they see fit, except when it comes at the cost of others. A commercial enterprise of this type in said area is not in the best interest of the area residents or himself. (Mr. Eustis' letter in its entirety, is on file in the Clerk's office)
2. Sandra Reulet, 835 Rt. 29, thanked the Board for the site visit as it provided clarification. She initially thought the launch point was closer to the bend in the creek than it actually is, there's a bigger gap than she had envisioned. However, she has concerns with motor boat navigation in that area because once you make that turn, you're down to one lane for motorized boats because there's a tree down upstream and it significantly narrows the sight line. While on the site visit, she took particular note of Board Member Patrick Hanehan's comments, when he explained that often times the Board will grant a Special Use Permit on a one year basis, with the opportunity for the Applicant to then receive a renewal. She respectfully requests the Board to continue that protocol in this instance, to provide ample opportunity to identify or address these issues as they arise. She thanked the Board for their time.
3. Jonathon Tingley, Gilchrist Tingley, P.C., Attorneys at Law, 251 River St., Troy, NY, stated he represents Eugene and Andrew Schneller; Eugene Schneller owns 802 Rt. 29. He addressed the Board at length on what he perceived to be a deficient application and proceeded to tell the Board he felt the Applicant failed to meet the burden of establishing that the proposed use complies in all respects with the Town's zoning code. He also felt the Applicant failed to provide sufficiently complete information concerning the potential environmental impacts. He also submitted a letter from Sterling Environmental Engineering and requested it be included in the public hearing record as well as his submitted information. That letter, along with his 34 page submittal, is on file in the Clerk's office. He asked the Board to deny the application.
4. Jerry Magoolaghan, 809 Rt. 9P, Developer of Schuyler Hills subdivision, gave a 'real world' picture to the Board of what he believes will happen here, because he lived this situation for 17 years just up the creek at the Water's Edge /Woodlands Community. They've got a hundred boats and over a hundred kayaks there. He can honestly say that on any given weekend day, if he went down to use his kayak, he never ran into more than two or three people, except perhaps on July 4th, if it was 90 degrees outside. The only thing he sees ridiculous about this, is the plan to have a 40 car parking lot because there is never going to be 40 people there at a time, even if he obtains permission for all the kayak storage he's proposing. That is a real world fact. People do these things (kayaking, canoeing, paddle boarding) a few times during the summer, and they don't all use them at the same time, that's just how it is. He lived it; go down to Water's Edge and ask them there. You don't get 50 people on a Saturday going kayaking at the same time. So if there's overkill on this plan, it's all these things you're hearing about like the traffic, parking, garbage and all that. Sounds like those garbage issues already exist, it's not going to come from this little business. He's spoken to a number of the people purchasing homes in Schuyler Hills, as well as those just looking at homes, and they all think this is a great idea. And for the Town, to have access to the creek through a small business like this, he thinks it's a great recreation opportunity. He can assure these people here tonight, that the crowds they picture in their minds just isn't going to happen.
4. Andrew Schneller, 802 Rt. 29, stated he doesn't want this next to where he lives or by the property line. He said they are planning to build a berm and put up a gate in phase two so they aren't impacted themselves. Cars and car alarms will go off, he doesn't want a port-a-pot outside his bedroom window or the slamming shut of car doors that will wake everyone up. He doesn't want traffic on the road and it will have a negative impact on their neighborhood. Landscaping to buffer sound or site hasn't even been suggested. They have a great kayak launch down their property and they have eleven acres; it is not the right location and will impact him. He is against the project.
5. Lawrence Macica, 804 Rt. 29, said the applicant neglects his road line and needs to mow and clear the overgrowth of brush that is on the road, as it makes people drive closer to his property line of the road.
Chairman Ian Murray asked if there were any further comments or concern; seeing none, Chairman Ian Murray closed the Public Hearing at 7:56 p.m.
The Applicant thanked the Board for their feedback. He has read the neighbor's letters and a lot who wrote in on behalf of the neighbor close to the property, and it is clear, as he read through them, that they didn't have all the facts. He then reviewed what the business is NOT. Their proposed business is not a daily rental business where people will be coming in each day. The letters talked about a hundred cars coming in there and things of that nature; this is not what this business is. It is not a daily launch site where you pay to come in and launch your kayaks. You cannot rent any water vessels from them. It is a recreation membership type of business, where they will have racks to store member's kayaks, canoes, paddle boards and paddles and members will have direct access to the water. There will be no motorized vessels. It is a dawn to dusk business for storage of members kayaks and a place to launch them, in order to have some peace and tranquility on the water. There will not be a lot of cars with people whooping and hollering. Their target customers for this recreation business will mostly be made up of members 40 - 60+ years of age, who are active and enjoy the peaceful fitness activity of being on the water, but do not necessarily have the storage space for their kayaks, canoes or paddle boards. He said he really appreciates the Board considering this and will answer their questions.
Chairman Ian Murray thanked the Applicant for the site walk and asked the Applicant to tell them about the phasing of this project.
The Applicant stated this is Phase I only. The berms talked about earlier, are only to keep his children away from the customers. Phase II is out of the picture.
Chairman Ian Murray asked what their anticipated member total will be, in general, for Phase I.
The Applicant responded each rack holds six and there are twenty racks; perhaps roughly 60 members as a lot of people have two kayaks or a kayak and a canoe or paddle board. The grass parking lot will be kept and maintained.
Chairman Ian Murray stated no motorized vessels or water craft.
The Applicant replied that's correct. He also said they will have rules and regulations for members in the contract, and again, the hours will be dawn to dusk.
Chairman Ian Murray questioned how they would regulate members bringing guests with them who have their own kayaks; will that be allowed.
The Applicant explained they'll have a Code of Conduct in their rules and regulations.
Laurie Griffen and George Olsen questioned if a member brings a guest with a kayak, will that
be allowed, adding some places are supervised and have someone there when people are checking in.
The Applicant responded they will know all who come there, parking passes will be given per kayak. If a member brings a guest or two with a kayak, they will be given a free pass for the guest for the day; this is only allowed once. And hopefully the guest will then become a member.
Laurie Griffen asked the Applicant to explain the roadway/driveway easement and how it works.
The Applicant responded he owns the road and he maintains the road, others on the fire lane come out and help maintain the road at the same time.
Laurie Griffen stated you own from Rt. 29 to your property, it's your road.
The Applicant replied yes, he owns the road to his property and where the road turns to the right, beyond his property, is owned by others.
Chairman Ian Murray asked if there were further questions;
there were none. He then read the following
letter from Saratoga County Planning Board:
"RE: SCPB
Referral Review #19-12 Special Use
Permit - Dwyer's Paddle Storage and Day Water Access
Storage and day use paddling facility of 2+ acres
located on 11.55 acre parcel along Fish Creek in the Conservancy Zoning
District
Location: NYS Route 29 and west of Bryants Bridge
Rd. 168.-3-73
Received from the Town of
Saratoga Planning Board on January 08, 2019.
Reviewed by the Saratoga
County Planning Board on February 21, 2019.
Decision: No Significant County Wide or Inter Community
Impact
Comment:
The Applicant has submitted
a proposal for use of personal property to rent storage space for water vessels
to be used on Fish Creek. Users of the
water vessels will have direct access from the rear yard of the Applicant's
property on which is proposed the provision of 40 grassed parking spots,
outdoor paddle racks (20 to hold 6 vessels each), docking parallel to water's
edge w/30' wide access. Also purposed
for provision on the property are port-a-johns and 4 picnic tables. As relates to concerns voiced by the SCPB and
the safe and proper use of the property and its facilities, we note that:
1. There should be
receptacles on-site for the regular/routine collection of trash/debris to keep
material from water.
2. The owners
should routinely maintain control of dust emanating from the site that would
impact the water and adjacent landowners
3. The impact of
night lighting should be mitigated so as to not create a nuisance for adjoining
landowners.
4. In accordance
with the Town's Zoning Ordinance related to business uses in a residential
area, signage (if permitted) should be approved and of a minimal nature.
5. It is our
recommendation that in accord with other water uses at the proposed end of Fish
Creek the business should be home to only non-motorized uses on the water to
limit the impact to residences.
6. Where
applicable and beneficial to the neighbors' peaceful use of their property the
Applicant's site plan and approval notes should provide for boundary line
landscaping which affords visual and sound mitigation."
Chairman Ian Murray stated due to some last minute challenges, the Board will Table the application at this time and pick it up at next month's meeting, complete SEQR and possibly complete the application at that time.
The Applicant thanked the Board.
Returning
Minor Subdivision Conference
Doug & Carol
Post #18-07
1260 Rt. 9P
Saratoga Springs,
NY 12866
S/B/L
193.14-1-13.2 Lake Residential
Returning Applicants seek to subdivide their 2 acre parcel in order to construct a new house.
The Applicant appeared before the Board and reviewed his application.
Chairman Ian Murray stated a grading plan is needed due to the lot constraints and the Board needs that before going forward.
The Applicant responded he spoke with his engineer and with Gil Albert regarding that and about getting settled on the final design of the house to try and establish the grading. The grading will have to be in compliance with the Building Department. He brought the topo maps.
Chairman Ian Murray replied it's still in the Board's purview to review this and we have the proposed house location and the submitted copies of the proposed plans for the house. Chairman Ian Murray told the Board, ideally, he thinks the corners of the house should be staked and the Board needs to do a site visit. He doesn't know if anyone on the Board had the opportunity to take a look at it, but there are serious lot of constraints. The hill drops right off and the topo on the survey map is existing, but it doesn't show anything for future. Whether it's on there or the elevation plans for the house; he doesn't know how they'll grade it out. There are existing stairs on the lot and the bench mark on the stairs is at 222.46. Then they showed a bottom elevation of the house at 218, so already there's a 4' difference and they're right next to each other. So how that will be retained? Same thing across the back and sides, they're at 205 and 218 elevations and this doesn't tell us how they're going to get there. Chairman Ian Murray then questioned what kind of soils are there.
The Applicant responded shale.
Chairman Ian Murray stated he's not sure how the Applicant will do it, but he'll almost have to dig and export everything that's there and then import after the foundation is done.
The Applicant responded that is probably the way it will go, yes.
Chairman Ian Murray said he's unsure how they'll do it on the site, with the proximity to the road there, it's just tight. He's seen other things built in situations like that but the Board needs more information.
George Olsen questioned if the driveway is across the street.
The Applicant replied there is 40' from the house to the road.
Board discussion ensued concerning parking, as he'll have the garage and the space in front of the garage - the road in the right-of-way. The property line is 18' and the parking space is 9' x 18' so he'll barely fit a car on the property line.
The Applicant stated his confusion, after talking to both the surveyor and the engineer, he thought the way this worked was he needed permission from the Board to build and then the Building Department would work with the engineers as far as what the grades would be to finalize and meet approval. He didn't realize that the Board reviewed everything.
Chairman Ian Murray responded the Board has to review it all, including the grading plan. He explained that the Applicant is showing a typical house and he has to show the Board how that will work on that site with the utilities, with the grading, with the driveway and everything else, in order for the Board to review it and make sure it'll work prior to approval. As he said earlier, the Applicant can probably make it work, but they need more information prior to approving it. Chairman Ian Murray then questioned if the Applicant had talked to the Sewer District about getting sanitary in there.
The Applicant replied yes and he will have to bore under the road. The well location is roughly on the north end, but to get a rig in there is really tough. He uses a dowser and gets great results.
Chairman Ian Murray stated the way this is proposed, the Applicant will need a zoning variance for setback.
The Applicant replied yes, he has 18' to the property line but he has 40' from the front of the garage to the road.
Chairman Ian Murray stated there will be no change on the culvert on the south side, because that's Department of Transportation, so the Applicant wouldn't be able to make any changes to that, including the water course or the culvert.
The Applicant stated he already had D.O.T. there to look at it. Nothing is permanently attached to the retaining wall, so the culvert still runs down under the pool.
Chairman Ian Murray stated the Board needs the house corners staked out and the grading plan.
The Applicant questioned how he goes to the Z.B.A. to obtain the variance.
Chairman Ian Murray stated the Board can deny this now and send it to the Zoning Board of Appeals and then after that, come back to the Planning Board. This Board meets two days after the Zoning Board in March.
A motion was made by Laurie Griffen ,
seconded by Patrick Hanehan, to deny the application and send it to the Zoning
Board of Appeals. Chairman Ian Murray – aye,
Laurie Griffen – aye, Patrick Hanehan – aye, Robert McConnell – absent, Joseph
Lewandowski – aye, Brandon Myers – aye, George Olsen - aye, Christopher Koval -
absent.
Denied
6 - 0 Sent to the
Z.B.A.
The Applicant thanked the Board and asked when they'd like to do a site visit.
Chairman Ian Murray stated the Board meets again March 27th, so they'd like to do that before the meeting, earlier in March. He told the Applicant to let Gil know and have him get in touch with the Board.
Chairman Ian Murray asked if there were any further questions; there were none.
Returning
Pre-Submission Conference for Special
Use Permit
Julia Van Hall
13 Olde Saratoga
Knolls Ln.
Schuylerville, NY
12871
S/B/L 156.-4-58
Rural Residential
Applicant seeks a Special Use Permit for a Bed & Breakfast, Writing Workshops and a Whiskey and Rye Distillery.
Applicant failed to appear.
Chairman Ian Murray stated that the Board has to have the Zoning Officer determination on this proposed application and the Board has to do a site visit.
Old Business: Chairman Ian Murray updated the Board on the law suit brought against the Town and himself, and I quote: "Board update - I testified in the suit Tuesday, last week, before Supreme Court Justice Ann Crowell. Tom didn't have to and basically what it was, is it came down to they would, if I recused myself from the John Witt, Cedar Bluff application, they would drop all charges. So, it just goes to show it has nothing to do with residency or anything else. The Judge asked me to think about it for a few days, I did think about it, I talked to a few people just knowing what this could get into and stuff like that, and then I declined to accept their offer and sent it back to the Judge to make a determination. So." Board members responded "good, it was the right decision." Chairman Ian Murray sincerely thanked the Board.
New Business: Chairman
Ian Murray said the Conference thanked everyone for attending the training
conference and said they had record attendance this year, 580, and received a
lot of positive feedback. People said
that this was the best conference they've had in a while, which was good to
hear and hopefully they get new ideas for next year too.
Meeting Adjourned
The next regular meeting will be held Wednesday, March 27, 2019 at
Respectfully submitted,
Linda A. McCabe
Planning Clerk