TOWN OF SARATOGA

ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS DRAFT MINUTES

February 25, 2019

 

 

Chairman William Moreau called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. and led the flag salute. 

 

Chairman William Moreau welcomed everyone to the meeting and proceeded to review the Rules of the Board.

 

Zoning Clerk Linda McCabe called the roll: Chairman William Moreau – present, Clifford Hanehan – present, Thomas Carringi – present, Clarence Fosdick – present, Christopher Benn – present, Nicholas Schwartz - absent, Steve Mehan - present, Alternate Member Mark Sullivan - absent.

 

Also present: Zoning Officer Gil Albert, Michael J. Phillips, Sue & Sal DiSiena, John Hall, Steven Winney, Mike Stewart, Peter Loyla, Tab Denovellis, Christine Pyle, Dan O'Neill, Joe Mack and Terri Korb. (Sign-in sheet is on file in the Clerk’s office.)

 

Approval of Minutes: A motion was made by Thomas Carringi, seconded by Clarence Fosdick, to accept the meeting minutes of January 28, 2019.   Chairman William Moreau – aye, Clifford Hanehan - aye, Thomas Carringi - aye, Clarence Fosdick - aye, Christopher Benn - aye, Nicholas Schwartz - absent, Steve Mehan - aye, Mark Sullivan - absent.

Carried  6 - 0

Approved

Public Hearings for Area Variance

 

Michael John Phillips #18-05 

133 Saratoga Rd., R-6

Glenville, NY 12302

S/B/L 193.10-1-19 Lake Residential

Location:  1316 Rt. 9P

 

Returning Applicant seeks a 21' front set back and a 24.6' two-sides set back in order to construct a new home with attached garage.

 

Applicant Michael Phillips appeared before the Board and reviewed his application for a single family home with an attached garage.  He stated he had adjusted the footprint of the building and it is smaller than the last plot plan he had presented to the Board and he's moved it back per Board request.  He will be putting in foundation drainage with a french drain back to the culvert, at the back end of the property, to address drainage issues on that corner.  It's all Town right of way along that line so it'll back into the existing drainage swales there.  He asked if there were any Board questions for him.

 

Clifford Hanehan questioned how this footprint compares to the original camp.

 

Applicant Michael Phillips responded his guesstimate is this footprint is smaller, even with the garage.  He believes he is covering less area. 

 

Christopher Benn stated the previous camp was at 32%  coverage and this is at 28%; he doesn't have an as-built, he purchased it after it had been removed. 

 

Zoning Officer/Building Inspector Gil Albert gave the Board an aerial photo showing this is smaller than the previous camp. 

 

Clifford Hanehan asked if there is adequate drainage in the back, as he needs slope to take it away once it gets back there.

 

Zoning Officer/Building Inspector Gil Albert responded there's a drainage ditch back there with a culvert that goes under Fitch Rd. and into the Town culvert.

 

Clarence Fosdick questioned why the Applicant has drainage only on three sides of the house and not on the side of the existing property.

 

Applicant Michael Phillips replied it is really tight on that side there, so he'll be putting gutters on for the roof run-off  and direct it into the french drain and tie into the catch basin.  He'll be working with the Building Inspector on this as well.

 

Zoning Officer/Building Inspector Gil Albert questioned what kind of roof will be on the house.

 

Applicant Michael Phillips responded  30 year architectural shingles.  He then reviewed the pictures and depictions in the application with the Board.

 

Clifford Hanehan questioned if this will be closer to Fitch Rd. and the Applicant replied no, further away.

 

Sal DiSiena, a neighbor, stated he brought a copy of the original camp survey and shared it with the Board and it appears the Applicant's footprint is better, even with the garage.

 

Chairman William Moreau thanked Mr. DiSiena and asked if there were further questions from the Board; there were none.  He then asked for the Zoning Officer's opinion.

 

Zoning Officer/Building Inspector Gil Albert stated it's consistent with the area, he's pulled it back from Fitch Rd., came down a little bit on the width and is addressing the drainage issues; he is okay with this.  Issues of elevation, compacting of the dirt and all other construction issues, will be addressed as this progresses with himself, as Building Inspector.

 

After providing Proof of Notice in the Saratogian on February 15, Chairman William Moreau opened the Public Hearing at 7:17 p.m. asking those wishing to speak, to please stand and state their name and address: 

 

Sal DiSiena, 251 Co. Rt. 75, Mechanicville, owns the property next to the Applicant's property and stated they have concerns with the drainage, height of the fill and moving it up closer to the road blocks his view of looking down the road. 

 

Christopher Benn responded that the Applicant is actually asking for less of a setback variance than previously. 

 

Zoning Officer Gil Albert stated this is 6' from the DiSiena property line, whereas before it was closer and he's moved the front back another 4'.  The Board goes by setbacks and Mr. DiSiena is looking at the old camp; we have to look at the deck along with the house now.  With the french drains, his height is okay with FEMA regulations. 

 

Board discussion ensued.

 

Clifford Hanehan said he hadn't heard everything the DiSiena's had said during the Board discussion and asked if they said they have concerns with the closeness of this to their property line.

 

Sal DiSiena replied a little bit, but it's the frontage, going forward.  It goes further front and cuts his view off of the side of the road and he has drainage concerns too; his wife added the height as well.

 

Gil Albert responded the height is no problem; he's putting in gutters and french drains around it to control any runoff.  There will be no runoff onto DiSiena's property or the road; that will all be resolved.   He also added for the DiSiena's to keep in mind that with FEMA regulations he would have to build it up higher and fill would have to be all around it.  FEMA requires a specific first floor height in a flood plain and the Applicant is trying to get it out of that flood plain.  The amount of dirt there is due to FEMA.  He also added that if anyone around the lake builds anything or wants to do anything to existing structures, and they go beyond a certain percentage, they too will have to meet FEMA requirements.  All your properties at the lake eventually will have to go higher as well, due to FEMA flood plain elevation regulations.  He stated he will make sure this is done correctly.

 

Clifford Hanehan  said the DiSiena's probably had issues with the original camp as well,  as they're all in there so tight; one has to do a bit of give and take out there.

 

John Hall, 106 Chapman Hill Rd., stated he has concerns with water as it doesn't go up-hill. 

 

Applicant Michael Phillips responded there are elevations with the application.  The drainage real elevation is 205 and the area of the french drains is 206 and 207; the distance between them is a little less than 100'.  He'll be working through all these issues with the Building Inspector.

 

Clifford Hanehan stated it's challenging at the lake.

 

Chairman William Moreau asked if there were any further comments or questions; seeing as all had spoken who wished to speak, Chairman William Moreau closed the Public Hearing at 7:28 p.m.

 

Chairman William Moreau went through the Balancing Test, line by line, with the Board which found in favor of the Applicant.

 

Clarence Fosdick made a motion, seconded by Christopher Benn, to approve the application as long as drainage is addressed with Building Inspector Gil Albert and it is consistent with the general character of the neighborhood.  Chairman William Moreau – aye, Clifford Hanehan - aye, Thomas Carringi - aye, Clarence Fosdick - aye, Christopher Benn - aye, Nicholas Schwartz - absent, Steve Mehan - aye, Mark Sullivan - absent. 

Carried  6 - 0

Granted

 

 

 

Tab Denovellis #19-01                                   Representative:  Peter Loyola, CLA SITE

39 Castle Dr.                                                                               58 Church St.  Suite 200

Stillwater, NY 12170                                                                  Saratoga Springs, NY 12866

S/B/L 194.-1-20 and 194.-1-22 Rural District

Location:  1050 Co. Rd. 70

 

Applicant seeks a 2.9 acre variance for agriculture pursuits; the Applicant has a 1.18 acre parcel and a 5.92 acre parcel.

 

Peter Loyola, CLA Site, appeared on behalf of the Applicant asking for variances on both lots, and stated if needed, they will combine them.  The property used to be part of a working farm and there will be no substantial changes to the character of the neighborhood.  He then introduced Christine Pyle, an event coordinator, to talk about some of the uses they are planning on doing out there with different groups and agricultural pursuits.  For agricultural pursuits, he is looking to possibly have a Christmas tree farm and possibly working with non-profits to try and grow gardens; those are some of the activities he's trying to pursue out there.  He then asked Christine Pyle to address the Board.

Christine Pyle addressed the Board, saying some of the different programs Tab can partner with are affiliated with Capital Roots Community Gardens, located throughout Albany, Rensselaer, Schenectady and southern Saratoga counties, that look for areas to tend gardens that promote how to grow plants, how to harvest, how to preserve them.  Cornell Cooperative Extension also looks for various organizations and farms to partner with to hold different events.  4-H Club does, Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts - they all have to do various outside events to earn badges in the agricultural field.  Those are some of the organizations he can partner with, as well as holding farmers markets, along with doing a Christmas Tree farm to pursue the agricultural end of things.  He can also plant various gardens; herb gardens, flower gardens to help promote the farm through various sales at the farmers market. 

 

Peter Loyola stated there is no other property around it.  He bought the 5.92 acres and the 1.18 acre parcel not realizing he wouldn't be able to do what he was thinking about, which is why they are seeking the 2.9 acre relief.  He added this is keeping within the surrounding properties.  There are some single family homes that are adjacent, but they believe with the light stuff he is planning on doing to promote his property, there will be no adverse affect.  The difficulty is not self created, he bought the two properties thinking he was going to do something, so that is why he is seeking the variance.

 

Zoning Officer/Building Inspector Gil Albert stated he was confused and asked exactly what variance the Applicant is looking for.

 

Peter Loyola replied 10 acres is required for a farm.

 

Zoning Officer/Building Inspector Gil Albert responded according to Town regulations that is correct, but NYS Ag & Markets law trumps Town law and theirs is 7 acres.

 

Chairman William Moreau then read from the findings received from Saratoga County Planning Board:

 

"Comments - That while the concept of an area variance for this applicant's use of his land presents no significant countywide or inter-community impacts, the Saratoga County Planning Board requests the following information be submitted to both the Zoning Board of Appeals as well as the Saratoga County Planning Board prior to a determination being rendered:

 

1.  There appears to be no need for an area variance related to an agricultural use of the five plus acres.  Please define.

 

2.  Please provide a list of all proposed uses associated with the agricultural pursuit of this property.

 

3.  Recognizing the need for the upcoming public hearing as defined through 25AA, we would like to receive a copy of public hearing comments as relates to the proposed uses, what defines the need for a variance, as well as comment from the surrounding agricultural land owners."

(The County findings, in their entirety, is on file in the Clerk's office.)

 

Chairman William Moreau stated the Board cannot make any decision on this tonight as the County sees no need for an area variance.  The County Planning Board wants specific details and until the details are provided us to send to the County, this Board cannot make a decision.  As the County Planning Board wishes to see the public feedback on this application the Board will go forward with the public hearing.

 

After providing Proof of Notice in the Saratogian on February 15, Chairman William Moreau opened the Public Hearing at 7:39 p.m. asking those wishing to speak, to please stand and state their name and address and keep their comments limited to five minutes.  The following spoke:

 

Joe Mack, 1059 Co. Rd. 70, questioned if the Applicant needs to merge the two properties together since Ag law requires 7 acres and he asked if what Peter Loyola said, 'light stuff', is an accurate description of the specific uses for this property.  He stated he'd like to know exactly what they are planning on doing there.  

 

Chairman William Moreau responded yes, the Applicant will need to merge the two parcels and no, those were not specific uses that were stated earlier.  What was stated is too vague and the Board needs detailed information from the Applicant, as does the County.

 

Joe Mack then questioned if there has been any work done on that property, outside of the barn, for agricultural purposes and if there are any pictures of both the barn and the work done outside.

 

Peter Loyola responded there are pictures submitted. 

 

Joe Mack asked of the inside of the barn?  He'd like to see those pictures because he is certain there are no horse stalls in that barn.  He asked the Board if they've seen the inside of the barn.

 

The Board responded they've never seen the inside of the barn nor any photos of it.

 

Joe Mack asked if the Board can go out there to see inside the barn and what he's done agriculturally there.

 

Peter Loyola stated the Applicant has stables there in the barn. 

 

Joe Mack asked if he was certain of that and asked Peter Loyola to prove it and show some pictures of the inside of the barn.

 

Peter Loyola said he had no pictures of the inside of the barn. 

 

Chairman William Moreau stated the Board would like to see inside the barn as well, as will the County.

 

Joe Mack stated this will have an adverse affect and he is against the variance.

 

John Hall, 106 Chapman Hill Rd., stated he has property across the road from the Applicant and asked if the Applicant had gotten any building permits to work on the barn.

 

Zoning Officer/Building Officer Gil Albert replied no.  He then stated if someone would fill out a formal complaint form he can then go and force him to allow him to do a site visit and inspection.  Joe Mack said he'll do that.

 

Steve Winney, 1045 Co. Rt. 70, stated this reminds him of the Rt. 29 property story, tells you she'll do this and then does that instead.  Tab said he wanted a wedding venue and now says he wants agricultural pursuits.  Tab told Shirley Gemini he's going to open a motorcycle shop and now wants a variance for agriculture pursuits.  He believes Tab has no interest in that.  He wants to know what the barn looks like, as Tab's put a septic in there and that needs to be addressed.  He said he's been led to believe you need to know how big the building will be and how many people are going to be in there, in order to know what size septic is needed; this needs to be looked into.  He said the Board should be aware there's also a cemetery on that property.  He's also concerned with traffic there as tractors and manure spreaders go up and down the road constantly, more traffic on that road isn't needed.  He feels like Tab is trying to change the neighborhood.  Tab doesn't live there, but when he is there, he plays music loudly after 11 p.m. and he's even had to call the police.  Tab doesn't seem to care about the neighbors or the noise ordinance that the Town has.  He bought the property in October 2018 and it's now February 2019.  He went from wanting to do a motorcycle shop to a wedding venue and now agriculture pursuits.  He needs to be part of the community and come up with a legitimate agriculture plan, address all the County's questions with specific uses, be it agriculture or events.  He sees no clear picture of what he wants to do.

 

Zoning Officer/Building Inspector Gil Albert stated that Peter Loyola had stated the Applicant plans on doing different events and such, but the Town Board voted down a law allowing event venues in the town, so those will not be allowed.  Quite honestly, it sounds as if they need to go to the Planning Board before being in front of the ZBA.  They need to be very specific with what they want to do, and be very, very specific concerning any events with the Planning Board.  He thinks they should go before Planning and let them decide if the Applicant needs to go to the ZBA.  A true agricultural pursuit is 7 acres and no approval is necessary for that.   He added he sees no clear picture of what the Applicant wants to do.

 

Peter Loyola responded first of all they have to address the County's issues with this and they want them to be specific with the use.  He said agricultural pursuits, in the Town's law, is extremely vague to begin with and it's got commercial in there and a lot of vagueness with that as well.  He feels they've covered themselves well with the Capital Roots program, the 4-H stuff that's going on, etcetera.  He's heard about the wedding event for a long time and he knows about the old Schuyler Pond/Maranville Farm issues that came up.  That's when they said they just want to get this going with a tree farm and  get some people in there to promote agriculture.  He then said they're coming up with legitimate agricultural uses they feel will help legitimize the activities there.  They need to get specific with it and they can do that.  It's a very vague law the Town has in place.  If they don't need the variance for the 7 acres, and it's the recommendation of this Board, they'll take it up with the Planning Board.

 

Zoning Officer/Building Inspector Gil Albert stated County Planning has a part in this no matter what, so you have to deal with them first and then you'll have to deal with the Planning Board here. 

 

Chairman William Moreau stated as they're seeking agricultural pursuits, the Applicant needs to merge the two lots together to get the seven acres and they then need nothing from the Zoning Board.

 

Clifford Hanehan stated the Applicant needs to clearly define and prove that it's an agricultural pursuit; we  mostly know what agriculture looks like.

 

Zoning Officer/Building Inspector Gil Albert added again, with the events, they have to be very specific.  He said they need to be really upfront with those events because any function you have will be defined as events.  You must be very specific, it sounds like you're grasping for something to do.  You need to define clearly what you plan to do.

 

Peter Loyola said they'll work on their definitions and try to be more specific with what they want to do with agriculture. 

 

Chairman William Moreau said they need to combine the two lots and they'll have the 7 acres needed for agriculture. 

 

John Hall, 106 Chapman Hill Rd., questioned if there are different zoning laws for buildings.

 

Zoning Officer/Building Officer Gil Albert responded yes.  How interior is designed, ingress/egress, dependent upon if it's for animals or people it is different.

 

Joe Mack, 1059 Co. Rd. 70, questioned who enforces if they don't abide by the list of what they're doing.

 

Zoning Officer/Building Officer Gil Albert replied he will shut them down.

 

Steve Mehan stated he's confused as Peter Loyola contradicted himself numerous times.

 

Clifford Hanehan added after the Applicant bought the property, he realized he couldn't do certain things; his attorney should have addressed that before he bought it.  He then said he doesn't see this as a hardship, the Applicant should have checked our regulations before purchase. 

 

Chairman William Moreau agreed.  He asked if there were any further comments from the public; there were none.  He asked if there were any further comments from the Board at this time; there were none.

 

Chairman William Moreau closed the Public Hearing at 7:59 p.m.

 

After a discussion with the Board, Chairman William Moreau stated the County Planning has asked for specific information from the Applicant.  This Board can do nothing for the Applicant as a variance is not needed, all they need do is merge the 5.92 acre lot with the 1.18 acre lot and they have the 7 acres needed for ag pursuits.

 

Peter Loyola stated they will Table their application at this time.

 

Old Business: None

 

New Business: None

 

A motion was made by Clifford Hanehan, seconded by Christopher Benn, to adjourn the

meeting at 8:15 p.m.  Chairman William Moreau – aye, Clifford Hanehan - aye, Thomas Carringi - aye, Clarence Fosdick - aye, Christopher Benn - aye, Nicholas Schwartz - absent, Steve Mehan - aye, Mark Sullivan - absent. 

Carried  6 - 0

 

Meeting Adjourned

 

The next Zoning Board of Appeals meeting will be held March 25, 2019.  

 

Respectfully submitted,

 

 

Linda McCabe

ZBA Clerk

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~Meeting dates are subject to change~